Wednesday, October 29, 2008

The Hill Cumorah

It is a good thing that Mormon apologists are able to create such scholarly works, otherwise the Church would look mighty foolish!

Take, for example, the Hill Cumorah in New York. Since the contrivance of Mormonism, it has been contended by Joseph Smith himself, his witnesses, and the following prophets that the Hill Cumorah in New York is the actual Hill Cumorah written about in the book of Mormon.

Lately, however, it appears that folks are worried, if real scientific scrutiny would be applied, the Hill wouldn't live up to it's claim.

So now, Mormons are saying that the Hill may be where JS found the golden tablets, but it isn't the same Hill where the great battles of the BoM took place.

How convenient!

The Hill Cumorah

This Mormon apologist writes:
"In summary, the archaeology of New York is persuasive evidence that Book of Mormon peoples did not live in that region. By implication, the Cumorah of the golden plates is not the Cumorah of the final battles."

In accord with these general observations about New York and Pennsylvania, we come to our principal object—the Hill Cumorah. Archaeologically speaking, it is a clean hill. No artifacts, no walls, no trenches, no arrowheads. The area immediately surrounding the hill is similarly clean. Pre-Columbian people did not settle or build here. This is not the place of Mormon’s last stand. We must look elsewhere for that hill."

John E. Clark, "Archaeology and Cumorah Questions," JBMS (Provo, UT: FARMS, 2004), pg 151

But, historically, the following has been stated about the Hill Cumorah:

"The great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith, the boy about whom I spoke to you the other evening." (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Feb. 11, 1872 Journal of Discourses Vol. 14, pg. 331)

"These records were carried by Ether from the hill Ramah, afterwards called Cumorah, where the Jaredites were destroyed, as well as the Nephites." (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, May 18, 1873 Journal of Discourses Vol. 16, pg. 50

"It will be, next Thursday night, 54 years since the Prophet Joseph Smith, then but a lad, was permitted by the angel of the Lord to take the gold plates of the Book of Mormon from the hill Cumorah, as it was called in ancient times, located in the State of New York. " (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Sept. 18, 1881 Journal of Discourses Vol. 22, pg. 224)

"The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon and the more extended discussion of this subject by Elder B. H. Roberts which was published in The Deseret News of March 3, 1928, definitely establish the following facts: That the Hill Cumorah, and the Hill Ramah are identical; that it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites, fought their great last battles; that it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his' son, Moroni. We know positively that it was in this hill that Moroni deposited the abridgment made by his father, and his own abridgment of the record of the Jaredites, and that it was from this hill that Joseph Smith obtained possession of them. " (President Anthony W. Ivins, Conference Report, April 1928-Morning Session)

"The hill, which was known by one division of the ancient peoples as Cumorah, by another as Ramah, is situated near Palmyra in the State of New York ." (Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith , chapter 14)

"I have been asked to forward to you for acknowledgment and handling the enclosed copy of a letter to President Gordon B. Hinckley from Ronnie Sparks of your ward. Brother Sparks inquired about the location of the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon, where the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place.
The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.
The Brethren appreciate your assistance in responding to this inquiry, and asked that you convey to Brother Sparks their commendation for his gospel study." (Letter from F. Michael Watson, Secretary to the First Presidency to Bishop Darrel L. Brooks, Moore Ward, OKC, October 16, 1990)

So, as status quo with Mormon apologists, "let's make up new rules to explain away the problem we have."

You can't have it both ways...

Why can't you guys just tell the truth?

Wednesday, October 8, 2008

Definition of Apostasy (with ads)

(click for larger version)

I was looking at the definition of apostasy when I noticed that there was a banner ad for the LDS proclaiming "Truth Restored". I think that is a very nice illustration for the word "apostasy".